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10:03 am
July 5, 2011
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TopBuckHunter
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7:03 am
July 13, 2011
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Gemstatejake
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Love the ear tags……….What do you figure they fed those porch pets to make 'em sprout those ridiculous horns?
I'd love to take one with my sling shot. Bet I could coax 'em in close with a handfull of sugar cubes and a hypo filled with anabolic steroids…………
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9:35 am
July 13, 2011
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mdc
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Gem
Once again your your mouth was faster than your brain! :0) If you only knew what it took to grow deer of this magnitude. My hat is off to the rancher for all his hard work. High fence or not taking care of gods creations takes a strong back and a big heart, not to mention a thick wallet. Personal, I wish I could raise a few mule deer to help with my research. Most of this deer are as wild as any deer in the wild. Sure there are ranches with deer that are not afraid of humans and are quit use to the feeding program they are on.
My money is on red, I bet you haven't even been on a deer ranch. How can you have such a strong opinion about something you know nothing about. I have been on dozens of high fences ranches and dozens of ranches that are low fence that have awesome feeding and breeding programs.
I have been on one mule deer ranch that is 110,000 achres of low fence. They started a feeding program 5 years ago and have seen their deer herd grow from 500 head to 1200 head in that time period. Along with the increase in deer herd, their fawn recruitment has went from 25 percent to 110 percent. Talk about awesome. I wish Idaho would let a few ranches practice this! Much better then having 100 percent fawn mortality like we did last year. A feeding program would have dramatically changed this outcome.
Hope all is well! and anytime you would like to see an operation first hand let me know! Then you can speak with some sort of logic behind what you are saying…. :0)
This is not a personal attack! Just trying to open your eyes! :0)
Steve
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9:39 am
July 13, 2011
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mdc
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Topbuckhunter,
Thanks for posting the video, Not to many people can figure out how to post stuff like that, let alone a video. Thanks for sharing it with us and keep posting video and pictures for us will ya.
Steve
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5:42 pm
July 13, 2011
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Gemstatejake
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Post edited 5:51 pm – July 13, 2011 by Gemstatejake
mdc said:
Gem
Once again your your mouth was faster than your brain! :0) If you only knew what it took to grow deer of this magnitude. My hat is off to the rancher for all his hard work. High fence or not taking care of gods creations takes a strong back and a big heart, not to mention a thick wallet. Personal, I wish I could raise a few mule deer to help with my research. Most of this deer are as wild as any deer in the wild. Sure there are ranches with deer that are not afraid of humans and are quit use to the feeding program they are on.
My money is on red, I bet you haven't even been on a deer ranch. How can you have such a strong opinion about something you know nothing about. I have been on dozens of high fences ranches and dozens of ranches that are low fence that have awesome feeding and breeding programs.
I have been on one mule deer ranch that is 110,000 achres of low fence. They started a feeding program 5 years ago and have seen their deer herd grow from 500 head to 1200 head in that time period. Along with the increase in deer herd, their fawn recruitment has went from 25 percent to 110 percent. Talk about awesome. I wish Idaho would let a few ranches practice this! Much better then having 100 percent fawn mortality like we did last year. A feeding program would have dramatically changed this outcome.
Hope all is well! and anytime you would like to see an operation first hand let me know! Then you can speak with some sort of logic behind what you are saying…. :0)
This is not a personal attack! Just trying to open your eyes! :0)
Steve
Those Bucks ceased to be "God's creations" the second some mad scientist started tampering with genetics and feeding them hormones and minerals to promote unnatural size and antler growth. Although I'm sure it does require plenty of work and a "thick wallet" with the primary objective being a thicker wallet.
Which brings me to this, before this debate even begins, let me ask you one simple question: What do you think the primary motivation for these type of ranches is? (Understand that I'm not neccessarily addressing the outfit your'e personally involved with.)
Quick edit here…..your'e right, I have never laid eyes on a deer ranch. However, I have seen and spoken with those involved with elk ranches.
To say I'm not impressed would be putting it mildly.
Also, I noticed when adressing a particular ranch you used the word "theirs" to describe the deer that happen to live on it. Unless they bought and paid for them, those deer are ours. We have just as much right to them as anyone else……..
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8:08 pm
July 13, 2011
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mdc
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Post edited 8:14 pm – July 13, 2011 by mdc
They might as well be their deer. 110,000 acres that you will never get to hunt! Not that you would want to, private property and all….
Not all ranches tamper with the genetics and add growth hormones. It is very rare to dabble in growth hormones! The primary goal of the ranches, that I am involved in, is to manage the animals that live on the property. Do something most fish and game agencies wont do and can't do! To control who comes and goes and when. No different then the cattle industry, taking care of the land and the animals that live there. Ok maybe the cattle industry was a bad example?
Yes, there is money involved, but there aren't to many things anymore where money is not involved. I have never met a deer farmer or rancher that does not love the animals he is raising or helping to take care of! It's a passion and a love for the greater good of wildlife! Some people do take it to extremes, but some people in every aspect of life take things to extremes. I don't dislike you because you go to the gym. You steroid popping genetically altered freak you. Catch what I'm saying! Not everyone is the extreme……
It's time you see the cup as half full and not half empty! Don't dislike the greater because of a few!
Steve
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8:17 pm
July 13, 2011
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mdc
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Gem
Im in texas, at a texas trophy hunter show and will not have phone reception till tomorrow! I saw you called, I will try you sometime tomorrow afternoon after we load our stuff in the Alamo dome! Have a great night!
Steve
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9:13 am
July 17, 2011
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Gemstatejake
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mdc said:
They might as well be their deer. 110,000 acres that you will never get to hunt! Not that you would want to, private property and all….
Not all ranches tamper with the genetics and add growth hormones. It is very rare to dabble in growth hormones! The primary goal of the ranches, that I am involved in, is to manage the animals that live on the property. Do something most fish and game agencies wont do and can't do! To control who comes and goes and when. No different then the cattle industry, taking care of the land and the animals that live there. Ok maybe the cattle industry was a bad example?
Yes, there is money involved, but there aren't to many things anymore where money is not involved. I have never met a deer farmer or rancher that does not love the animals he is raising or helping to take care of! It's a passion and a love for the greater good of wildlife! Some people do take it to extremes, but some people in every aspect of life take things to extremes. I don't dislike you because you go to the gym. You steroid popping genetically altered freak you. Catch what I'm saying! Not everyone is the extreme……
It's time you see the cup as half full and not half empty! Don't dislike the greater because of a few!
Steve
Yup, thats 110,000 acres that myself and 99.99% of the deer hunters in this country will never see. (unless we pay admission of course,kinda like disneyland.)
You need to take another look at that video, sorry my friend, those bucks without question have been tampered with. Either selectively bred, fed hormones, fed minerals, or some combination or all of those things. I call B.S. on that. I'll bet B&C and other organizations do too. I'm sure it's hard work don't get me wrong.the same way it's hard for a farmer to grow prize winning crops or livestock.
I'll say again the primary focus for this whole unfortunate "industry" is the almighty dollar. And frankly to stroke the egos of a few exclusive "hunters". 110,00 acres is a drop in the bucket of the overall deer habitat in Texas. I don't see how intensivly managing that tiny percentage of land really makes an impact for the "greater good".
I've thought about this practice a little bit over the years. Point blank I think hunting should be taken out of the equation. IMO it ain't really hunting sorry if that offends anyone. The one redeeming quality I've come up with that MIGHT benefit the greater good is to use these ranch raised deer to supplement wild populations during times of trouble like now after the winter die off. I'd equate it to how hatchery raised salmon and steelhead are used to prop up wild stock in almost every anadromous fishery you could name. Could this even work? I have no idea………seems like maybe it could. A practice like that would certainly change my opinion and i could buy your statement that the primary mission for these ranches is to support the "greater good".
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9:54 am
July 18, 2011
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mdc
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Yep, just like Disneyland!
Many deer every year grow antler over the two hundred inch mark on public property without and kind of hormones or selective breeding. Just because you have never seen one doesn't mean they don't! :0) Feed minerals or protein or both, which is it. I mean minerals and protein are naturally in a deers diet. What is the problem with helping them out with that? It creates healthier and stronger deer.
By the way, Texas is 95 percent private land and over half of it is manage by a private individuals or company's for the better part of wildlife. Maybe that is why you can harvest 7 deer a year with over the counter tags. Can't do that in Idaho! If more landowners in Idaho practiced wildlife game management, hunting would improve for all it citizens.
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